Woman; 352; Women's Coalition for the Third Century

What what. Changed. Good evening and welcome to woman my guest this evening is Wilma Scott. Heidi

Wilma is presently a distinguished visiting scholar at the University of Massachusetts. She is vice president of the Women's Coalition for the third century. Wilma was president of NOW from 1971 to 1974. She describes herself as a feminist at large. We're going to discuss the Women's Coalition for the third century and this and that will with one of the most outspoken people I know I don't know I don't know why but we haven't started and I feel like I've lost control over it. Is it true that you once told someone you were the object of the feminist movement of the sex symbol of the feminist movement. I've told men that them and kept an absolutely straight face while I looked them over yes. Well why do you do that with. Your father. Because very often men need to. To relax and. And also there's the idea of starting with people a basic tenet of education

is to start with people. And the truth is for many men are you really should the women and from that we can move to all kinds of radical and other healthy things. I want it. I want it to be. Hard. I mean well let's talk about the Women's Coalition for the third century now I think it's not really a very well no no no it's not. I really haven't heard much about it and I don't know what they're all about. Well let me tell you something about it. We really started meeting with the American Revolution by scent. Commission ministration in 1972 and by late 73 we realized that it's a matter for integrity. If we wanted to talk about me in Parliament of women and we did and about feminism when we did that we really have to form something that was a tunnel was. And. Go on our own. There were a lot of things that happened. That brought that about. So we did we met together. It's about 14 national organizations includes NOW. And the. Different

local groups a lot of individuals. And. We think that we're doing some things that aren't in some ways otherwise in the movement era if there are still. There's a lot of the organization Sennott. Are women who are. Religious. In one way or another. Nuns and ministers and so forth and women who just work for the church. And I think it's very important to do that and to bring in the spiritual aspects. Of self defied. It's not secular. We also think that we need to address the bicentennial barça. And the meaning of a can to recognize that the. United States for America represents a continuing revolution. And one of the most significant things that's happening in that regard now is of course a feminist revolution worldwide but certainly in this country also we need to work on the networking among women. And two to recognize that while this country was born in effect in war. That

we need a rebirth. Through alternative means of peaceful means and so we are organized as a Women's Coalition for the third century. One of the very things we felt is the Declaration of Independence in this country a course did not include the majority of the population it didn't include women of all races or minority men. It was only our forefathers who did right and there were four mothers you know. So we have developed over the years over a hundred people have just played in the drafting of a declaration of interdependence. It's accompanied by a decoration for imperatives that are almost prerequisites. The decoration of printers we think is a much more mature and realistic model. You mean you're right. Individuals and nations. You're rewriting the Declaration of Independence in a new one and it's really the

1976 counterpart. To what our foremothers did at the Centennial in 1876. Now must feel about now and I didn't know about five years ago that our four mothers including Susan B Anthony and others impeached this nation's government and the nation of course were deserving for that matter. So we see this document the Declaration from dependence as the 1976 counterpart of this nation whether it wants it or not. So matter of fact just participating with women in Philadelphia. In a re-enactment of the 1876 event and then bringing up to date with this document that. I think speaks to the. Reality that we still have a world where. And I'm. Paraphrasing from the document where are the two technologies where the expressive has yielded to the instrumental. Where.

Have yielded to weapons. Were what we called the feminine has yielded the mass going and where women are still yielding to men and girls are still being taught to yield to boys. That is it seems to me obviously very unhealthy. And so we we intend to a supporter and additional to what's going on in the women's movement. Intend to be part of the architects not merely helping but the architects gives leadership and we think we have the vision for the possibilities for this next century. What are the other organizations that are supportive of it. You mentioned 14 over what I mentioned now the National Women's Political Caucus a national coalition of. Nuns. The National summary of women's religious. The Grail the national black feminist organization.

The national committee on household employment. I always hesitate to mention names because you leave any out. I think people pretty much are wide spectrum and they're different. Other organization individuals and groups that have worked for one thing or another have been in support of the coalition. I was reading the material that you sent me and the only thing that I wonder is you know how realistic are some of your goals. Well there is a there is a spiritual dimension illness in a serial. We think that's very important because I think a lot of it shows and for the reasons I've been around so much time to it we're all too busy to tell you the truth is because the people are so wonderful and so visionary. You know. I think it's realistic in the sense that. Because for most of us are in it we have been a part of this movement.

If you are sick in the sense that very often many of us haven't had time to think through what are the possibilities. You know beyond all the kind of legislative things beyond the changes in the schools beyond the changes that are going on the church has at least been started in the political process and so forth. What do we envision what kind of a world what kind of a sense or what kind of a nation do we envision and how can we make it possible so it's it's a process of getting together. And of bringing our. For instance reality that. The kinds of traits and characters and values of ignorant been considered feminine have not been generally valued in our society at large and they've been considered as if they were a woman's prerogative. Of course what we call the feminine is a part of every man and boy. And what we call the mascot is a court room and to translate in this match is not one of them. I think one of the very important things about the coalition is.

Not in the only way but one of very important ways that people from the secular part of the movement and those who are working through the churches are working together in mutual support. So. I don't worry too much for people say how realistic it is because I've been a part of enough movements including the feminist movement that most of the things we did you put some time or another. It's unrealistic. You can't do it it's impossible and I think we have started building some foundation to make some things happen so I don't know I say to people become a part of it and find that you know you're a part of these things that seem so idealistic and so unreal into action. And we'll see how it happens and I don't have a blueprint. Is there a conflict. I know you've always been very involved in the women's movement is there a conflict between your involvement in the women's movement in this and any way this is a part of women. But you really it's really not a women's organization.

Well yes it is. But I remind people that the word women can include men unlike the reverse. You know she can include much more generic and basic and there are men involved with children. So no there's no conflict. I think it's it's a support of support and it has some additional dimensions. What do you think about the the bicentennial now that there's supposedly a lot of money around for bicentennial projects and so on are women going to be fairly represented in the by by S.A. if not in the official kinds of things and not not women with what is often called new consciousness in very great ways. If one looks at the funding that the that the official bicentennial ministration is giving. Congresswoman Pat Schroeder had documentation that as of a couple months ago

remarkably less than two and a half percent of the funds from the administration itself has gone for anything that could really be called women's programming let alone anything this feminist for heaven's sakes. So yes women are just plain and kind of infiltrated because women are more the least outside of. The home. But in terms of having the best of my knowledge a significant role. In. In what is communicated to the country is about the meaning of the Bicentennial and the meaning of this country. What is this country about what does it portend. I would say not unless something remarkable happened. There is the question of resource centers. Which works like women giving more surface maybe something different than that but that's what it is the coalition trying to right that iniquity. Is that one of

your goals. Yes I think so but I think more is a catalyst in the stimulant but I think what we're also doing is. We're going on our own and was. Apparently were not really able to significantly. Communicate to the. Tune of the Bicentennial ministration which is one of the reasons for our existence it really isn't fair to say there was just a little bit in the sense that you started out working with the federal government on this project and then you got a broader vision and you decided to go on from there and we have of course a much more radical view and when I say radical I mean what it means it means to get to the root causes of situations and problems. So yes I think we have to I mean it was a matter. Of integrity for us to do I'm going to hold up to your declaration of interdependence here and show people what it looks like it's a very interesting document. I'm especially interested in your imperatives where people

write if they if they would like a copy of this if they want some more information. Actually the address of the person we serve the staff coordinators. I think it's 99 Deerhurst for board in Buffalo New York. OK. Let's talk about the imperatives for a minute. Can you list them. I do want to. Some I'm not sure that I think they are very much in the purpose of coming out of the feminist movement and in all honesty there were discussions within the Coalition about whether or not it should be in there and I was one of the people who said I would have nothing to do with it if the birds were not there. When you say things like not to be taxed without representation. Right. It's still tyranny. Taxation without representation or misrepresentation is still tyranny and I think it's important to have to get those things in. I think we all should repair taxes. Probably not probably not but I haven't been able to get anybody to join in with me

and I think for an individual to do it alone it's possible that what you do is spend a lot of energy in. The federal government and it's and it made it's made to look like this individual is some kind of a nut when it's a basic issue had a lot of people agree with me on the idea. But only one other person so far who has actually been willing to pay taxes on the grounds that women have been. Excluded by. The. By law and. As well as illegally and still are represented and very much misrepresented. So I think these incurs important because otherwise because as you noticed and you noted the declaration of interdependence talks very much in much more general terms and in a more global kinds of terms that it's very easy for women to one more time be forgotten. So I consider these imperatives as almost correct courses for the other to come about but we still have to keep in mind this kind of vision. You know

it's not the vision and I'm sure if we got together we devise it refine it one more time. But I think you give some sense that when as as feminist. What we're talking about are not what some people call women's issues. They're certainly that they include that. But I think we need to address herself to every human issue in the world. Every human issue in the world. And we haven't done it in the stock price and I think we've gotten through a good many. Do you think that's a mistake that the women's movement is making that it isn't broad enough in a sense that it isn't really I think it is much broader. I think it's much broader than is generally known. I think that. That in increasing numbers and many of the people who are doing in my view some of the most vital and some of the most important work and movement are not generally known to the media and through the media they really aren't. Some are coarse and you've been a very important part I think of bringing that sand to you and those that work

with you on this program. But there some people are doing some very important work in terms of analysis in terms of changes in their lives and in terms of the kinds of things they are creating. That are not generally known to the people at large. So I think that. That if we haven't addressed every human issue we will. But there are many people that see this as as not only a change in our consciousness not only a change in our individual life but very profound and really revolutionary. You know I'm not talking about they'll shoot'em up bang bang guy. But radical changes in society. We need to move for instance from what has been. A min center of gravity in the academic world. In all fairness to sins to what I would call a women's center of gravity. Remember again the word women and the concept doesn't include men. And I we think will be much more human. For instance if you take. The definitions even

in the presently inadequate Kitchener's of humane and what we call the feminine they're almost identical. I am not saying that women are superior to men more. I don't know that you know who stand there you know when I was there. I'm not saying that women are going to save the world but I think what we call the feminine values are the more your main. And the evidence is overwhelming that the world belongs to what his masculinity has produced and the tears are all around us. So I think that these kinds of values are much more human. When Michael O'Hanlon of the compassion the tenderness openness and receptivity the caring kinds of things that women have been more conditioned to do and men can learn from. These are the kinds of things that we envision can make a difference. Well I know you're writing a book now is this which is that we have and this is one of the things it's it's I'm tired or at the moment after some of this and for the

health of it which may be the best part of the book. But it's wrong my vision my vision the values and the implications of the feminist movement. You know look at al your revolution. Oh absolutely. It's a values revolution. Among other things there's no question about that in my mind. I mean maybe you should explain that a little bit. Well it's simply a change in the way we look at herself and I think where we're about is creating new kinds of human beings. I mean let's go back to the newborn. What if we didn't know the sex of our children and just just raised our children in terms of what is our transcendent reality our human ness that is what we are primarily for those who would say that that would be terribly damaging. No they're not persuasive but I know people say that they're not persuasive. Of course children learn that which sex A.I.. And they will learn that that's important part of their identity.

What transcends all that but we all have in common with each other is our humanity and we've been deprived of a part of that. Anyone who has been frightened out of being anything that's called manly or master is oppressed and the man that's been discourteous or frightened out of being what's called feminine is oppressed and I all have been denied part of our human being. No I wouldn't worry about that at all. See I'm just just ordinary natural and that's you know not the same with normal curiosity. They're going to what they're saying. Sometimes you know the meaning of it but in different terms and I would hope some of the terms before the program when you and I were sitting here someone was talking to you about an experience he had had with some women who were very vicious to some other women and that was a very upsetting experience for this person. And you said it's normal but it's not natural yet. Yes. We often we often equate that which is normal which only means average

or typical with that which is natural that is in the nature of the organism. Now they can do the same thing but they aren't necessary. For instance the sexual stereotype and the subtle or the blatant a person of women and the repression much in men is very normal. I don't think it's natural feminism is I think where natural or natural but it's not yet normal. Now I I'm vision as and durable optimist and I don't even think I'm sick. I envision the day when firmness and I were talking about this and insisting on will be so natural and so normal. But when you look back on this period of time an earlier I wonder why we even considered this. Bankable really very primitive and almost barbaric. Is there anything that happened so far that involved from the beginning of this current women's movement that you can say that about I wonder why we debated that. Isn't there isn't

is there. Not really. People would sorry equal pay for equal work. But that's still not a reality. But this rebirth of feminism is still relatively young you know your many ways and it's really hard occurred. Really there with all that's happened and I think that if somebody's been burned Well I think we are. I have to ask you you know because you were for so long a president of NOW. I have to ask you what you think about what's going on now. And what I mean is some of the controversy that's coming out of now the rest of the women's movement some of the political infighting and so on. How do you feel about that. Well in some ways not good at all because I do see some say. Going back in some instances through.

Two what has been generally the. Politics as usual. You scratch my back I'll scratch yours and. Attacking other people. Rather than bringing up issues I don't think it's I think some of it is healthy some of the differences and the disagreements and the change and the real or the attempts to grow I think is very healthy. So I don't think you're very healthy though. No it doesn't. And also in truth often the parts that. Are the most difficult. Or. Officious really is an accurate word. Are the things that are picked up and again communicated to other people whether it's through the mass media generally or other means of communication. And people forget that there really are.

Some healthy things going on. I think within them I think there's some unhealthy things. So it's not all of one piece. I think that. We're really trying to create something with with a feminist ethics and values that. In many ways hasn't existed before. And we don't have a blueprint. And we have to make things almost out of whole cloth and we have to do it in a subtle. That doesn't buy you the sentence. So you know given these enormous difficulties and. Virtually no resources. Very little support relatively from existing institutions. I think the miracle is how much we've achieved. But you know I'm Virt by some things that are happening so I don't think it's all one or the other. I think all these these kinds of things are going on and I'm. I'm hopeful. That. More optimistic than not that what we're about is so important and that we believe in

it that we will be able to be mutually supportive enough. I don't think there's any guarantee of that a movement an organization is a creation of people and it can be very fragile. So you know we can't we can't take these things for granted. But. I know I'm not surprise people. Superb word. Just really very fun people and I cherish a room with some of them I disagree with that. I'm optimistic that we can we can come through it. And I think one of the reasons will do it is not only that the enormous commitment of people I know not just thousands. But. I think because society and the world needs feminism so much. What about the charge that there is no real leadership there is no leadership to take the place of people who are currently leaders. And in that there are some people who say we don't really need leaders.

Well I think one of the things we're doing just as we are. Redefining power. And reassigning power. That. We have to redefine leadership. There are leaders and and sometimes and this is particular but not all are true for women. There are many things that represent leadership that haven't been told leaders. From a style often is very different very different and I think it has to be. So I don't buy this business that we can go for a leader to sniff because whether we call people that are not people act as leaders who do give clues who who have some sense or have some of the kinds of things that need to be done or are able to listen to us or the people or who have to self-confidence or have the vision and a whole lot more. So it exists whether it's called that or not. When we question it's a quote you brought us again.

Oh yes you tell that like there's something new on the scene that they lean in for a vacation for the third century has indorsed and we got to make it more clear that race is not on the market. No it's not yet on the market will be for a couple months. But it's called her street and that means. I did. There is so much more that I want to talk to you about and we've only got about 30 seconds. Can you answer one question really fast. You were a nurse. You describe yourself as a card carrier Yes. And you talk to nurses a lot of scripts and so on and I listen and you listen a lot. Yes. What's what's a quick message for nurses what they can do for women's health care. I think in imperative or healthy nursing but I say that with an occupational group with Wilma thank you very much for coming. Good. Thank you for watching and good night. And the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.